http://www.guitarator.com/music-theory/my-problem-with-jazz Guitar and music theory tools, lessons, webapps, articles. Fri, 04 Jun 2010 01:01:36 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 http://www.guitarator.com/music-theory/my-problem-with-jazz/comment-page-1#comment-389 admin Fri, 16 Apr 2010 16:58:40 +0000 http://www.guitarator.com/music-theory/my-problem-with-jazz#comment-389 Thanks for the thoughts, Dave. I'll definitely try giving a listen to some of those guys you mentioned. http://www.guitarator.com/music-theory/my-problem-with-jazz/comment-page-1#comment-388 Dave Fri, 16 Apr 2010 16:54:32 +0000 http://www.guitarator.com/music-theory/my-problem-with-jazz#comment-388 I feel the same way about certain ivory tower classical composers (Schoenburg, Boulez) as you do about jazz. I do feel that the innovations that came with Bebop and later styles of jazz can be very accessible - but like Phish - you have to find the right stuff. Even Coltrane's album "Trane's Blues" is all blues-tinged jazz, nothing much abstract about it. Wayne Shorter (who played on Steely Dan's album Aja) has some good stuff - Speak No Evil. Oscar Peterson - greatest piano player of all time influenced Keith Emerson of Emerson Lake and Palmer. The list goes on. The jazz greats influenced many great rock/pop musicians. I'm sort of a jazz/rock fusion guy myself. Check out Jean Luc Ponty's album Cosmic Messenger or Enigmatic Ocean or Billy Cobham's album Spectrum. http://www.guitarator.com/music-theory/my-problem-with-jazz/comment-page-1#comment-272 Turkle Mon, 27 Jul 2009 03:40:58 +0000 http://www.guitarator.com/music-theory/my-problem-with-jazz#comment-272 Well, jazz is a pretty big category there. Maybe I can offer a little context.

When you listen to Louie Armstrong, Duke Ellington, or anyone playing before bebop, I would say that you get exactly what you're talking about. They're pop tunes played very melodically, and the solos, with few exceptions, stay close to the melody or at least stay "in" the chord changes. It was dance music and it was played to be enjoyed by an audience that wanted to dance its collective rear end off.

Well, after gigs, a bunch of wise guy musicians started meeting up at bars in the wee hours and playing for each other. They began exploring all kinds of altered scales, crazy tonalities, fast tempos, and spare melodies over hideously complex chord changes. Players would get together and "cut" each other, each trying to outdo the other in furious musical battles.

The thing is, bebop wasn't really meant originally to be performed for anyone else but musicians! Miles in his autobiography talked about the early days with Bird and Diz and he said that the musicians were standing 6 deep at the bar... But eventually the critics got wind of what was going on and it was publicized and was performed for people.

So yeah, bebop and all that insane post-bop and free jazz and what have you sounds insane, like they don't care if the listener enjoys it or not, because it comes out of a musical tradition that is by musicians, for musicians, and NOT for an audience of anyone but musicians. Don't get me wrong, non-musicians can love it too!! But I think it just serves a different purpose than regular "pop" music.

Anyway, I'm a jazz player so maybe I'm biased, but it's important to remember where the music came from and what it means today.

PEACE

When you listen to Louie Armstrong, Duke Ellington, or anyone playing before bebop, I would say that you get exactly what you're talking about. They're pop tunes played very melodically, and the solos, with few exceptions, stay close to the melody or at least stay "in" the chord changes. It was dance music and it was played to be enjoyed by an audience that wanted to dance its collective rear end off.

Well, after gigs, a bunch of wise guy musicians started meeting up at bars in the wee hours and playing for each other. They began exploring all kinds of altered scales, crazy tonalities, fast tempos, and spare melodies over hideously complex chord changes. Players would get together and "cut" each other, each trying to outdo the other in furious musical battles.

The thing is, bebop wasn't really meant originally to be performed for anyone else but musicians! Miles in his autobiography talked about the early days with Bird and Diz and he said that the musicians were standing 6 deep at the bar... But eventually the critics got wind of what was going on and it was publicized and was performed for people.

So yeah, bebop and all that insane post-bop and free jazz and what have you sounds insane, like they don't care if the listener enjoys it or not, because it comes out of a musical tradition that is by musicians, for musicians, and NOT for an audience of anyone but musicians. Don't get me wrong, non-musicians can love it too!! But I think it just serves a different purpose than regular "pop" music.

Anyway, I'm a jazz player so maybe I'm biased, but it's important to remember where the music came from and what it means today.

PEACE
]]> http://www.guitarator.com/music-theory/my-problem-with-jazz/comment-page-1#comment-242 Simon Sat, 04 Oct 2008 03:20:52 +0000 http://www.guitarator.com/music-theory/my-problem-with-jazz#comment-242 No melodies in Coltrane ? Cmon, listen..there is plenty of beutiful melody. Listen to round midnight where miles and coltrane play together. http://www.guitarator.com/music-theory/my-problem-with-jazz/comment-page-1#comment-237 Roy Z. Sun, 10 Aug 2008 03:01:38 +0000 http://www.guitarator.com/music-theory/my-problem-with-jazz#comment-237 I agree as well, no good stories told over there.. decides, did you hear about "Smooth Jazz"?! that style makes me want to throw up! http://www.guitarator.com/music-theory/my-problem-with-jazz/comment-page-1#comment-162 EA Tue, 04 Dec 2007 02:10:24 +0000 http://www.guitarator.com/music-theory/my-problem-with-jazz#comment-162 I do agree with you in regards to Coltrane. I have also felt that way when listening to some of his stuff, and that would be easy listening if you compare it with 'Free Jazz'. You want to feel lost and challenge yourself to be patient..? Listen to Free Jazz. Personally I tried to, but just couldn't enjoy it.
Now, when talking about the broad genre of Jazz of today (contemporary composers and musicians) there is material like the one you describe, but there is also lots of stuff that DO have beautiful melodic ideas being proposed to the listener, and these touch you just as deeply as any other type of music but with a distinctive feel. I invite you to listen, for example to these two pieces from 'The Dave Brubeck Quartet':
The name of the Album where you can listen to these is: Dave Brubeck, The Essential. And the two songs I really love from this album are in the CD - Disc 1, Track # 5 Name: Audrey, and Track #11 Name: Brandenburg Gate (both with Paul Desmond on Alto Sax) Also if you get a chance, for Jazz Guitar, listen to Luis Salinas (he is from Argentina) Listen to a piece called ''Latin Bebop'' and go from there.
Good Luck..!
Now, when talking about the broad genre of Jazz of today (contemporary composers and musicians) there is material like the one you describe, but there is also lots of stuff that DO have beautiful melodic ideas being proposed to the listener, and these touch you just as deeply as any other type of music but with a distinctive feel. I invite you to listen, for example to these two pieces from 'The Dave Brubeck Quartet':
The name of the Album where you can listen to these is: Dave Brubeck, The Essential. And the two songs I really love from this album are in the CD - Disc 1, Track # 5 Name: Audrey, and Track #11 Name: Brandenburg Gate (both with Paul Desmond on Alto Sax) Also if you get a chance, for Jazz Guitar, listen to Luis Salinas (he is from Argentina) Listen to a piece called ''Latin Bebop'' and go from there.
Good Luck..!
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